Five with Fry

11: Five Lessons for New Entrepreneurs with Ty Smith - Part 2

• Dr. Jen Fry • Season 1 • Episode 11

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How to Handle the Emotional Side of Entrepreneurship (and Why Community Matters)

Let’s be honest—entrepreneurship is an emotional rollercoaster. In this episode of Five with Fry, I’m back with my mentor Ty Smith for part two of our conversation, and we’re getting into the real stuff: the emotional weight of building something from scratch and how to keep going when things get hard.

We talk about the gut-punch of rejection, the power of hearing “no” as “not yet,” and why learning to take feedback (without taking it personally) is a game-changer. Ty shares stories from the trenches, and we get into how even the most seasoned professionals can find entrepreneurship to be their toughest challenge yet.

Then, we shift gears and talk about something that doesn’t get enough attention: community. Especially for Black and Brown founders, the startup world can feel isolating—but it doesn’t have to be. We break down the dangers of relying only on friends and family for feedback, the trap of scarcity mindset, and the real magic that happens when we choose collaboration over competition.

If you’re building something and feeling the weight of it all, this episode is your reminder that you’re not alone—and that growth comes from both vulnerability and connection. Let’s talk about how to build a business and a community that lasts.

Dr. Jen Fry:

Friends, welcome to Five with Fry, where five is the magic number, whether it's five minutes, five questions or anything that fits in five. I dive into the big topics that matter, sometimes alone and other times with a friend. From navigating sports conflict to family dynamics, travel, tech, hard-hitting issues and even politics Nothing and I mean nothing's off the table. This is where curiosity meets conversation, and we always sit at an intersection. I'm your host, dr Jen Fry of Jen Fry Talks. Let's get into it, friends. Welcome to part two of my conversation on entrepreneurship with my mentor, ty Smith. So part one was last week and it was just so much good information that I didn't feel it be fair to you to have one really long episode versus breaking it into two parts. So you are about to hear part two of the five things that new entrepreneurs do to shoot themselves in the foot, starting with number three.

Ty Smith:

Is this number?

Dr. Jen Fry:

three Is this what we're jumping into?

Ty Smith:

Number three Ty, you only get five, you only get five.

Dr. Jen Fry:

Look, you're trying to. So this is official number three Y'all. He's trying to get some more numbers. This is why our conversations go on for hours, so what is your number three, ty?

Ty Smith:

So I don't know, it's actually maybe number four and it becomes down to the emotional space, right, it's emotion, and so what I'm about to say to your audience is something that I've actually said out loud, that you and I have talked about. That I remember. I remember a conversation you and I had about two Thanksgivings ago, after we had first really started, you know, kicking it and trying to figure out and struggling with your idea, and that you called up during Thanksgiving. It's like I can't do this. I just can't do this. This is driving me nuts, I know. I know I'm right. I know how to succeed. I know how to be successful and this is the hardest thing I've ever done.

Ty Smith:

I had a guy that I used to work with that I was helping him in a startup very early on. He's like no, I know this is the right thing, I know this is the right thing. And I'm like Doc, you have no idea. No, no, no, no, no, I have this problem. Everybody else that's in my situation will have this problem and I know how to solve it. I was like, I literally threw my hands up like, okay, cool dude. About two years later, he's like and this guy flew aircraft. I mean, he flew fighter jets right High speed. You know kind of dude flew fighter jets, which you know is like one of the cockiest things you could do in the world. You have to be on it. On it, lovely dude. He called me up. He's like man. This is the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. This is the hardest thing I've ever done in my life.

Ty Smith:

I'm like I get it, I get it, I understand. I get it. I get it, I understand.

Ty Smith:

I've heard enough of these stories to know that when you believe in something so much, you know you have invested your emotional capital, not financial capital we can talk about that later. That'll be my fourth, maybe fifth one. But your emotional capital in your product, so hard, and somebody tells you no, or I don't see enough there to fund this, or I can't give you no money, or this is a pretty dumb idea, or somebody's already doing this how hard is that? And so I think being able, as a founder, to hold on to your emotional space in a way that, not that you become thick skinned and that you don't care about your product, but that you understand that no is not no, it's just not yet Right, and I want to put stop that again. It's not no, because you're about learning. It's just not yet either. Not yet it's not time for the market, it's not yet ready for it. Not yet, I don't, it's not mature enough, not yet. It isn't scalable, it's not fundable, not yet. You need, you don't have enough data.

Dr. Jen Fry:

Can I add in a? Not yet.

Ty Smith:

Please.

Dr. Jen Fry:

I think also a not. Yet you don't know how to pitch your damn product in order to get what you need.

Dr. Jen Fry:

And let me preface y'all know I'm a professional speaker. Yeah, I do. I talk all the time, but speaking and pitching are like apples and igloos and people don't. There was, um, I can't think of a guy on linkedin and he was talking about he's a. He was a investor and he was talking about the company Waze. Waze is the one that helps you with your maps, but ultimately they're a data company and they sold for $1 billion. And he was on there and he was essentially saying that he didn't invest, but also the founder at the time didn't really know how to sell that part. And he says he looks back and he's like man, I missed out, he's also, but like founders, y'all need to know how to sell your company and that's a big thing is that you don't know it. So those opportunities which you're getting mad that you're missing on it's maybe because you don't know how to sell it.

Dr. Jen Fry:

And so for me, I apply to all pitch competitions. So one thing I do that I would invite all you to do is anytime you lose in a pitch competition or don't get in, send me an email asking for feedback. I have gotten glory and let me tell you Ty will know I'll be pissed as hell if I don't win it. I'll be man, your girl will be smoke coming out my ears. I'll be so mad. But I always ask for feedback and I've gotten amazing feedback that has changed my pitches, because I've asked. I've been, don't get twisted, I've been. There was one in person. I was so mad, oh my God, I was so mad, but I asked for feedback and they gave me really good feedback. And so that's. The thing about it is that you're not yet. Might be because you literally don't know how to talk about your business in an investor way or a pitch way.

Ty Smith:

Yeah, it's interesting that you would say that about being mad. I think that we'll talk about. We'll talk about positioning, right. I think that, um, we'll talk about, we'll talk about positioning right. I think a positioning is scaling, but I think another not yet is uh, or not yet Another failure is understanding the gift of feedback, right, so this is number four. Okay, this is number three was emotion.

Dr. Jen Fry:

But number four is not understood. Okay, not understanding. The gift of feedback hit that right.

Ty Smith:

So feedback in a startup, uh is will save you, not just you know. Uh, it'll save you money, it'll save you resources, because what you do is you end up figuring out what not to do, which, in strategy, is probably more important than what you do do. And so because it's heightened. And so when you have, when you get somebody, either an investor or the market, as in terms of potential customers or you get feedback from your people who are actually building the thing, what they're giving you is actual resources, and so we miss out on the resource allocation because we feel like notice I use feel we feel like they don't like us and even if they do give you positive feedback, it is you don't want to be skeptical as much as you want to be investigative. You want to investigate why they liked it, what was it about it, what did it help them accomplish? Dig more, because it will lead you to closer to the 80-20, 80-20 Pareto's rule 80% of the work gets done by 20% of the opportunity. Right, and you want to get close to that 80%. You want to get to that point where, as again, my mentor that taught me some of this stuff said, you want to see them with their eyeballs. You get so close that they go. They say I want it now and you go.

Ty Smith:

But it ain't finished. And they don't go. I don't care, here's my money, right? Because the only thing that matters is what people buy. That's what you're trying to get, and feedback gets you closer to. Oh, it's not perfect, right, it's not perfect yet. And they go. I don't care, take my money, please. Take my money.

Dr. Jen Fry:

I mean, what you're saying is so valuable in this journey and I think a lot of people who are entrepreneurs don't want to hear the gift of feedback because people have not been taught really how to accept feedback. Right, we're not taught really how they give feedback, but we're definitely not taught how do you receive feedback. We're not taught really how to give feedback, but we're definitely not taught how do you receive feedback. Because here's the thing is that some of these people you want their feedback, them jokers are going to be harsh as hell. Right, I've got some feedback and I can't remember what it was that call and I was like Ty, my little heart is hurting from that.

Dr. Jen Fry:

I can't remember what the feedback was, but I was like your girl's heart is hurting, like they just went after me with this, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna stop. I'm gonna stop accepting it, because then you get to decide exactly what you're gonna do with the feedback. Is it actual feedback that is like, okay, this can help me with my product. Is it feedback that these people who have no understanding of the market, the industry, your product, are giving you just because they want to say something like you get used to being like, oh, that was really good feedback, or yeah, that that can't help, but at least you show that you're responsive to it? And I mean I remember I'll never forget there was one investor who, um, when I asked him for feedback, he was like, well, I just can't get my other investors excited about it. I was like, okay, like that, you're not going to hurt me with that. Okay, thank you. Like you're going to be using my product in the future, but okay.

Dr. Jen Fry:

Or like I, um, I went and did a pitch in front of Saudi airlines and the. I you know I had researched all about their vision for sports. I, I came in here, I was ready and the and I did a five minute pitch and the question. The first question this guy was like I don't understand anything about your product or what you do.

Dr. Jen Fry:

the first one like I didn't even get like the first one, and so many people, when they hear that type of feedback, would have shut down. And for me I was like thank you, I really appreciate you telling me that. Like what is it? You didn't know. And so now I'm able to sit and understand like okay, this is what he didn't understand, this is what I didn't explain.

Dr. Jen Fry:

On. I can look at it almost as like a kind of like a third person. I'm looking at this thing versus me being intricately tied to it and be like well, he just didn't understand me. No, I didn't do my job. And so when you get used to accepting feedback, you're able to acknowledge like I just didn't do a good job of explaining it, I put too much of emphasis on this and not on that, and you're able to deconstruct it, versus just sitting in your your feelings and being upset the whole time Like that that shit ain't going to work for you. If you're going to accept feedback good, bad ugly you just you got to straighten up your spine, know that your little heart's going to be hurting, but you still have to go through it anyways, yep, yep, yep.

Ty Smith:

Um, if you don't, so I have a 4.1, and then I do have a fifth one, because the fifth one, ultimately, is about fine fine so the 4.1 is surround yourself with good people. You don't have to go alone right because it's attached to the emotional part.

Ty Smith:

But it's not about emotion. It's about having people who can give you really good feedback. It it doesn't have to be a coach. It's like I don't understand what's going on. Okay, so let's talk through this, but you find somebody who's going to be like that good friend. You need somebody who's going to tell you the truth and not just make you feel good. They have this idea. The book is called the Mom Test, but I've been admonished about it, so I call it the friends and family test. When you're trying to do product development and it's a really good book but it's like you wouldn't go to your friends and family and say, isn't this a good product? And what are they going to tell you? Maybe it's awesome.

Dr. Jen Fry:

Carol Fry would have loved this. Carol Fry would have put a 10 out of 10 rating on it.

Ty Smith:

But the friends and family, mom, ain't going to buy all of it, so you need to find somebody to tell you the truth. The last one, number five. Number five you talked about.

Dr. Jen Fry:

Can I actually go back to 4.1 for a second? Also I want to say is that the founder community especially as a Black person, but as a black woman the founder communities get really small. The Maryland founder community is small, and so what people tend to feel like is that there's only a certain amount of money or stuff, and so everyone becomes a competitor. And now, instead of you being able to send your product to someone and be like hey, take a look at this, I'm trying to figure some stuff out, instead of those honest conversations, you're like well, if I show them this, they might take this feature and they might do it. And all this and everyone becomes a competitor. And that's the worst thing that you can do when you make everybody a competitor, because these folks, when you surround yourself with good people, will tell you about money available, will tell you about pitch competitions, will help you out. You'll like. You'll be like hey, I'm applying to this thing. You've applied to it before. Um, can you help me out? And be like okay, yeah, I'll connect you with this person. Yes, I will look at your product. Yes, I will help you. Like here, let me send you all my application material so that you can see what I wrote because I got in it. That's the type of stuff that you want.

Dr. Jen Fry:

When you surround yourself with people, when you look at everyone as a competitor, you're going to miss out on so many opportunities because you're so afraid. That's what people will try and make you feel like is that? It's the hunger games out there? And if you tell your friend Jane about it, well, she's going to steal your opportunity and that's the worst thing possible. You want to look at this and say, like, what's meant for me is what's meant for me, what's meant for them is what's meant for them.

Dr. Jen Fry:

So a few years ago, I was in a pitch competition for this program and another one. I didn't win. I'm bitter about it, but the girl who won actually contacted all the women women who were in the top 10 and was like yo, do you want to get into a whatsapp group where we can support each other and where we can talk about grants, talk about opportunities, opportunities? And we were like, absolutely so. Now, a year and a half later, we're in this Facebook group and we any grants, opportunities, anything that we see that connects to another person. We're throwing it in there. And this is from the girl that won right. So that's the thing is that there's beautiful relationships that can get built when you don't look at people as competitors, when you look at them as we're just building out our community and what's meant for them or what's meant for me is we're going to get what's meant for us.

Ty Smith:

Yeah, I think that that's in the government. There's a term I used to work in the government. There's a term that I think you can find it if you look up hard enough. It's called competimates competition to teammates right? And I think that what you're offering is that it's not a zero-sum game.

Ty Smith:

We know, at least in black and brown communities, in startup communities, that the financial commitment is very small. Right, how much money flows out of the investor community into black and brown founders? We know that's small, and so it doesn't have to be a zero-sum game. It actually can be an additive game. Right, it's summative, it's not reductive. In other words, you can now have these reinforcing cycles of hey, did you know this? Go check that. Because if you don't see yourselves as in, like I win, you lose. But how does the community win? To your point, when I see something and it doesn't fit me, I give it to you, because if it doesn't work for you, you're going to give it to somebody and eventually they'll come back to me.

Ty Smith:

I encourage all the folks that I talk to to live in a world of abundance and not scarcity. We don't have a choice, particularly in the current political environment. We have to live in a world of abundance, how to think abundantly. And that requires us to say it's not for me, shove it to somebody else, because they actually might be able to take advantage of it, because there's going to be something that shows up on their side. They're going to be selfish enough to hold for themselves as they, just in case, but they'll get it back in another way it takes trust, it takes, oh my gosh, like you always talk about abundance, always, always.

Dr. Jen Fry:

I think, like you said, in this current political climate, we have to think with abundance, because if you think in scarcity, all you're doing is you're setting yourself up for failure. Well, I need to keep it. Well, just in case, what if something happens and we lose out on communion? That would be. The whole point of it is to get people thinking with a scarcity mindset. So now they're going to do whatever needs to be done just to maintain that thing that they have, and it's just dangerous. So, 100% agree, even though it feels hard to still think with abundance.

Ty Smith:

Yep, yeah, it is. But our community, the black and brown community, we know how to do this. In 1789, richard Allen, who started the AME Church in Philadelphia, created something called the African Beneficial Society, the Free Africa Society, which is a mutual benefit society that said it is because we are engaged in the need we can solve the problem, because there's nothing outside of the community that will advance the community. If you go all the way up to Oklahoma before the massacre, it was a community that was established in 1906. By 1921, it created Black Wall Street that, when you take a look at just the property value of those of the buildings that were burnt in 2020, 2021 value was $250 million. You take a community that was a generation and a half out of enslavement, that 1863, yeah, a generation and a half out of enslavement, and all of a sudden is creating multiple millions of dollars in wealth. You know how to do it. And it wasn't because it was selfish, it was because it was abundant and it looked out for itself.

Dr. Jen Fry:

Absolutely so. What's number?

Ty Smith:

five, number five, number five Will it scale? How do you create spaces in your entrepreneurial journey for scaling? And I think it goes back to your conversation about market position, understanding where you sit in this market environment, building something. So just a hit for those in your audience I get consumer product goods. I understand it. The margin on CPG is super thin. In other words, you've got to have either the like that thing, that thing that everybody wants, or you've got to produce a lot of that thing that everybody wants, or you got to produce a lot of that thing that everybody's going to, that shrouds the market. So I'm more of a technology guy. Where's the deep technology? But even the deep technology or the CPG in order to scale it, because ultimately that's what you're trying to do as you grow a business, or you grow it to some point and you're like great acquire, I'm out. The thing that you and I talked about is let's jump off the boat from the moment I met you.

Ty Smith:

Yes, right, which means there's an acquisition plan. So the strategy, and so part of thinking around where you fit in scale in market position, is super important. It is a ongoing conversation that underlies all your customer discovery, all your product development. Where does this thing fit that you should be having? It's not what is your primary, because you need to be thinking about customers. Where's the customer? Who is the customer? What problem am I solving? You know what are the products and services that I need to accentuate and or not. And so understanding where you are in the market, understanding where in the system it may or may not scale, I think is the number five. So those are the pieces that I think that need to be considered.

Dr. Jen Fry:

Number five Well, and I think what you're talking about, the scalability is so important because it goes back to like where you said where are you at in the market this one?

Ty Smith:

gentleman, I believe his name was Rodney Harris. He said the quote niches, get riches and find your niche.

Dr. Jen Fry:

Listen, 100%. I can concur with what could be said, especially from me 100%. But he said niches get riches. People aren't buying the kitchen sink. People want you to zone in on your niche.

Dr. Jen Fry:

And the problem is is that people are not doing competitor research. They are not doing to see what is being because, like they say, something is being used. Something is being used. It might not be that it's the thing you think it is, but people are using something. And that's what the problem is is that folks don't think about that. They'll think about, right, like, say, they make a brand new car, they make a great, um hybrid car, and they're like oh, all we're competing against is other hybrid cars, that's all that we're worried about.

Dr. Jen Fry:

Baby, you gotta compete against other gas powered cars. You have to compete against mopeds. You're competing against bicycles, you're competing against scooters, you're competing against walking, you're competing against the buses. You're competing against the buses, you're competing against the metro. Like, just because you're making a hybrid or electric car, you're not only competing against them, you're competing against a whole bunch of other people. And if you don't know those true competitors, then that's where you fall short. Because if you're like, well, the hybrid industry. Oh, we got down lock. Well, the problem is that the hybrid industry maybe got 2% of the cars. The 98% is all this other stuff that you haven't even looked at. So you have to be able to say right of this market, like where is my niche, what am I doing? It's so critical for that you know, um.

Ty Smith:

So yes, it's not a yes and it's just a pure yes. That the thing that I that you're getting to about who you're competing against your offer and what it's competing, here's where the niches are, and I think that this is super important for people to understand that. Look for adjacents, the adjacent market. So where can you take your thing and expand your impact on the sides, not the?

Ty Smith:

thing that you're going after where the adjacents, the adjacencies. The adjacent market for Airbnb was concierge travel. Right, not not where I sleep at night, but they said if people are there, they're already there, they're enjoying themselves. How do I build experiences around where they're at? What are the adjacent markets that I can now go after? Adjacent markets that I can now go after? The adjacent market for Amazon was what, after they built their technical book environment, we need compute power to make sure that we're getting these that between the request, the fulfillment and the distribution all happens seamlessly. Well, now we don't build out an entire IT infrastructure. That's called AWS, because it happened in the adjacents, and so scale speaks to adjacents understanding where your adjacent markets are. Once you really figure out what's your problem you're solving, he's like oh well, adjacently, they have some other problems that we might be able to solve. Well, how about that? Those are my five plus one.

Dr. Jen Fry:

Okay, five, so can you repeat your five again?

Ty Smith:

I wish I could. You know me. I talk out the side of the net. You absolutely talk out the side. No, let me look.

Dr. Jen Fry:

This is why the conversation goes so long. So the first thing is is that people think their thing is the best thing with no data.

Ty Smith:

Right Customer development, understanding your lead startup, your organizational piece trying to get that, trying to get that squared away, your financial pieces will they pay for it? Do you have any evidence that people are getting that? Are you building something that you're spending a lot of money, time and effort and financial, again, is about resource allocation is also your plus one is ensuring that you have surrounded by good people that aren't just going to be yes folks and tell you that maybe your thing is good, but are going to give you the truth and that will love and care for you. And finally, will it scale? Are you looking in terms of your position in the market and finding other adjacent opportunities associated with that? My five.

Dr. Jen Fry:

Okay, your five, your five. So I appreciate this conversation. I hope people who are looking into starting a company, who maybe have like a side hustle that they're thinking about extending it bigger, really listen to this and sit with it, because these are things that new entrepreneurs do that shoot themselves in the foot and can be super costly mistakes that they could have easily avoided had they just had this knowledge. So, ty, where can people find you?

Ty Smith:

LinkedIn T-Y-R-O-M-E Smith. I don't have any other social media because I go and track what my kids are doing. I look at babies giggling or otherwise, but I really depend on LinkedIn because it's about getting sugar, honey, iced tea done. I don't know what the rating is on this particular conversation, but it's about getting stuff done.

Dr. Jen Fry:

It's about we get shit done, okay, well, I appreciate you taking the time to chat with me. I appreciate this conversation because I know you've helped me so much and if we can just help one or two entrepreneurs, we've done our job.

Ty Smith:

Word up, that's how they can find me, hit me up.

Dr. Jen Fry:

Yep. Thank you, friends.

Ty Smith:

You're welcome.

Dr. Jen Fry:

Well, friends, that's it for this episode of Five with Fry your dose of five insights, ideas and inspiration. If you love what you heard, don't forget to head over to where podcasts are played subscribe, share and leave a review. Got a topic you want us to tackle? Drop us a message. We'd love to hear from you. You can come follow me on IG, twitter, the TikTok at Jen Fry Talks, or join me on LinkedIn. Look for me at Dr Jen Fry. Until next time, stay curious, stay bold and keep the conversation going. See you on the next Five with Fry.