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Five with Fry
Think of this podcast as your go-to for tackling the hard stuff with clarity and confidence. On Five with Fry, Dr. Jen Fry breaks down the rules, challenges the norms, and dives deep into the tough conversations that shape our lives—conflict, culture, family, sports, tech, and everything in between. This is where you learn to rely on yourself, embrace the messy, and come out stronger on the other side.
Five with Fry
19: Holding the Line: The Uncomfortable Truth About Who Gets Protected in College Sports
Who gets saved, and who gets sacrificed?
In this episode of Five with Fry, Dr. Jen Fry digs into the uncomfortable—but essential—question at the heart of college coaching: Who is deemed “worth saving” when things get tough?
Drawing from a powerful panel at the Drake Group Symposium, Jen unpacks how race and gender show up in retention decisions, especially when it comes to Black women coaches. The numbers are staggering: in 2024 alone, 11 to 12 Black women volleyball coaches at Power Five schools were fired. Meanwhile, white coaches with similar or worse records often stay put.
This isn’t about performance. As attorney Thomas Newkirk put it: Black coaches aren’t doing anything different than white coaches. What’s different is the institutional response—who gets protected, defended, or quietly let go.
With social media amplifying criticism from parents and athletes, athletic directors are making high-stakes calls about who gets backed. And it’s becoming clearer: those decisions are far from neutral.
As NIL and revenue sharing transform the economics of college sports, Dr. Fry challenges athletic departments to stop hiding behind win-loss records and ask the real question: Who gets grace? Who gets support? And who keeps getting cut loose?
Subscribe to Five with Fry wherever you get your podcasts, and join the conversation @JenFryTalks on Instagram, TikTok, and Twitter. Let’s keep this critical conversation going.
Friends, welcome to Five with Fry, where five is the magic number, whether it's five minutes, five questions or anything that fits in five. I dive into the big topics that matter, sometimes alone and other times with a friend. From navigating sports conflict to family dynamics, travel, tech, hard-hitting issues and even politics. Nothing and I mean nothing's off the table. This is where curiosity meets conversation, and we always sit at an intersection. I'm your host, dr Jen Fry of Jen Fry Talks. Let's get into it. Hey friends, welcome to the newest episode of Five with Fry, and today we're going to talk about this idea of what coach is worth saving.
Dr. Jen Fry:So on April 10th, I was at the Drake Group Symposium and I was a panelist on a panel. But I also was able to hear a panel which was titled the Price of Progress how Changing Economics Will Impact Diversity in Coaching and Administration. It was moderated by Emily Olson, it had Kyle Adams, dr Ingrid Wicker-McCree and Thomas Newkirk on it Dr Ingrid Wicker-McCree and Thomas Newkirk on it and so we were talking about you know who's being fired and how? In 2024, there was probably 11 or 12 black women volleyball coaches at the power four, power five level, whichever you want to say. Who were fired and Thomas Newkirk made this point that black women or black coaches aren't doing anything different than white coaches. But in some aspects, it's this idea of who's worth being saved and as we move into more of parents and athletes going to social media to express their anger, their just upsetness, at coaches, I think we're going to have to have more conversations, and real conversations, of the idea of who's worth being saved. And what I mean being saved is who's worth getting a second opportunity, who is worth getting grace, who is worth being backed up when people are going for their neck and people being athletes, parents and people being athletes parents, board of directors, presidents, fans, whoever it is.
Dr. Jen Fry:The question is who is worth being saved and who is worth an administration holding the line for that coach when people are going after them? Because the reality of the situation is that when these things are happening, it's easier to just say you know what? This coach isn't worth it. They're maybe not winning where we wanted them to win, they're not doing the immediate things that they said, and now this is happening, they're not worth being saved. And so I think it's really important as we start moving forward, especially dealing with NIL and the worth of recruits playing right, the worth of their talent as we move into revenue sharing talent as we move into revenue sharing, the worth of an athletic program getting money to give to recruits.
Dr. Jen Fry:I think it's really important to have the conversation around who is worth being saved and what is the racial and gender component of that? Because if people just try and say, well, this is the data on their recruits and their win-loss and what they're doing in conference and if they won a championship or not, you really are missing out on a huge component that does affect the idea of who's worth being saved or not, who's worth getting grace or not, who's worth having someone hold the line for them, who is worth all that? And we can't pretend it's just win-loss, we have to look at the full circle of it, and so this is going to be really important for administrators to have an open conversation about who is also worth being saved and using that language, because if we're not talking about in that language, we're not talking about the piece of conflict that comes with it, because the reality of the situation is is that when people are angry now, they're going to go to social media and some people might say we don't want how big of a social media splash this could be, so in some ways, they're not worth being saved. But I think it's important to have an honest conversation about that, versus trying to say, well, there's social media and they're just not winning. Well, we've seen that sometimes even coaches who aren't winning and have had bad social media blitzes against them are still worth being saved. So I think the conversation in some respect should be is this coach worth being saved?
Dr. Jen Fry:Well, friends, that's it for this episode of Five with Fry your dose of five insights, ideas and inspiration. If you love what you heard, don't forget to head over to where podcasts are played subscribe, share and leave a review. Got a topic you want us to tackle? Drop us a message. We love to hear from you. You can come follow me on IG, twitter, the TikTok at Jen Fry Talks, or join me on LinkedIn. Look for me at Dr Jen Fry. Until next time, stay curious, stay bold and keep the conversation going. See you on the next Five with Fry.