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Five with Fry
Think of this podcast as your go-to for tackling the hard stuff with clarity and confidence. On Five with Fry, Dr. Jen Fry breaks down the rules, challenges the norms, and dives deep into the tough conversations that shape our lives—conflict, culture, family, sports, tech, and everything in between. This is where you learn to rely on yourself, embrace the messy, and come out stronger on the other side.
Five with Fry
30: Running from Arguments? Your Relationships Might Be Shallow.
We’ve been taught that “good” relationships are the ones without conflict, but I’m calling BS on that. In this episode of Five with Fry, I’m digging into the idea that conflict isn’t a sign of failure. It’s actually proof of depth.
Think about it: when you care enough to wrestle with discomfort, speak hard truths, and work through disagreement instead of walking away, that says something. Real relationships require tension. Avoiding conflict might keep things polite, but it also keeps them shallow.
I share why so many of us were conditioned to fear conflict and how that shows up—either by shutting down or going full steam ahead. Neither of those extremes helps us build the skills we need for real connection. But if you’re willing to stay in the room when things get tough? That’s where the growth lives.
Whether you tend to avoid conflict or meet it head-on, this episode will challenge the way you see it, and maybe the way you show up in your closest relationships. Let’s talk about the unspoken stuff. Let’s get honest. And let’s stop treating conflict like it’s the enemy.
Grab my new book, I Said No, for more on how to navigate the messy, meaningful moments in work and life. And hit me up @JenFryTalks. I want to know how this episode landed with you.
Friends, welcome to Five with Fry, where five is the magic number, whether it's five minutes, five questions or anything that fits in five. I dive into the big topics that matter, sometimes alone and other times with a friend. From navigating sports conflict to family dynamics, travel, tech, hard-hitting issues and even politics Nothing and I mean nothing's off the table. This is where curiosity meets conversation, and we always sit at an intersection. I'm your host, dr Jen Fry of Jen Fry Talks. Let's get into it. Hey friends, welcome to the newest episode of Five with Fry. I am your hostess with the mostest Dr Jen Fry. So today we're going to talk about a quote I heard that has really sat with me for a while and it says conflict shows the depth of our relationships. And it sits with me because I think that many people and I will say this with my chest out wrongly assume that they have very deep relationships because they have not argued with someone. And I too have had that thought process or that assumption that we have never argued. So because we've never argued, our friendships are deep or our relationships are deep. And that fundamentally isn't true, because conflict shows you just who you are when you're angry in that relationship. Conflict shows you if there's a willingness to engage with each other in the middle of conflict. Conflict shows you are you willing to reconcile with another person and continue the relationship on Conflict shows just how deep you are willing to go with another human on really hard and uncomfortable things. And let me premise I don't mean the idea that you just don't talk about it and you get over it and you continue with the relationship. I'm not talking about that moments with an openness that is terrifying, but understood that you have to navigate through it to continue on with your relationship and that relationship having some type of depth to it.
Dr. Jen Fry:And I think back to when I was younger. I was never taught that. I'm not sure about you, but I was always taught that conflict is bad, and so we try and do everything possible to not only not engage in conflict but to try and always be happy, even when the situation would call for normal emotion that's angry, upset, disappointment, rage, whatever it is, upset, disappointment, rage, whatever it is. And so I was never taught that in relationships you navigate through hard things through conversation, through figuring out, and so for me it was really difficult with many of my relationships platonic and romantic to navigate through conflict without just turning and running like I was an Olympic track star, because when you're not taught the skill, you either go polar opposite of running away from it as much as possible, of running away from it as much as possible, or you are, like when I was younger, really, really aggressive and really forcing the thing to be talked about.
Dr. Jen Fry:And so I think, like me, there's a lot of people that didn't realize that conflict teaches you a depth of your relationship and that's what it should be happening. If you're in any type of romantic or platonic relationship with someone, there should be a depth to it. There should be points of having to figure out really hard and ugly things. You're two separate individuals, like that's a normalcy, and I think about the conflicts I've had with my friends that have created such a depth, and it's also created such a cautionness in some ways, because I don't want to lose those relationships.
Dr. Jen Fry:So I think about conflict in a different way and I urge everyone that, if you are someone that's proud that there's never been conflict in your relationships, to really rethink what that means. Who is holding something back and why are they holding it back? Who hasn't told the truth about their feelings being hurt or upset or disappointed or whatever it is. You really want a depth to the relationships. That make these relationships go long term, there's going to have to be conflict in it and the ability to navigate those conflicts and come out on the other side, and so I want you to think about that quote. Conflict shows the depth of our relationships, and are you willing to engage in conflict and come out on the other side so that your relationships can be deeper?
Dr. Jen Fry:These are things I also think about in my book that will be released August 1st, or, by the time you hear it, it's already been released, so you can sprint to Barnes, noble or Amazon online and get your copy immediately. If this is coming out after August 1st, and you're hearing it after August 1st, there's no reason that you have not, by the end of this episode, have already ordered your book in either paperback or EPUB, and once you read it, I want to hear all your opinions. Let me know what you feel about it. Well, friends, that's it for this episode of Five with Fry, your dose of five insights, ideas and inspiration.
Dr. Jen Fry:If you love what you heard, don't forget to head over to where podcasts are played subscribe, share and leave a review, got a topic you want us to tackle? Drop us a message. We love to hear from you. You can come follow me on IG, twitter, the TikTok at Jen Fry Talks, or join me on LinkedIn. Look for me at Dr Jen Fry. Until next time, stay curious, stay bold and keep the conversation going. See you on the next Five with Fry.